Many licensed therapists have expressed serious concerns over her treatment of this subject and the californian board of psychology has looked into her, however she has no licensure that they can remove.

Check out Cosmic Connie on Byron Katie here:
http://cosmicconnie.blogspot.com/2009/08/katie-bar-door.html

This review of one of her books is hilarious:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A2DB6ORZPCFA9L/ref=cm_pdp_rev_more?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview#R39CJC2K42GKDX

I’m afraid that I don’t believe Byron Katie occupies a different place to you or I. She is merely a human. To elevate – and even immortalise – “spiritual” leaders is Sociology 101.

Having said that, if Byron Katie really does live ‘in a space where the categories of ordinary life are simply irrelevant’ then she is irrelevant to me. I’d much rather hear from a teacher than a guru any day.

I don’t mean to ridicule your beliefs, but I just don’t believe the hype. Byron Katie has done a great job of popularising and simplifying some well known ideas, to the benefit of many. Nothing more, nothing less.

Jim

I lent my copy of ‘Loving What Is’ (I knew it was a bad idea at the time) which is a pity because I was stimulated to go back and see what she actually wrote. Anyway .. we have a similar perspective on the meaning!

“It seems to be more about giving someone a way to understand their experience of reality, that is less painful than what they are currently going through.”

I like this description very much! And I agree it’s hard to get a real sense from reading about someone else’s process and that the Work doesn’t present any judgements about reality or about right and wrong.

Believing (or not) in concepts about ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ .. now there’s a great new topic for discussion

Ian

I have a slightly different take on the point of the turnaround you talk about that’s my own interpretation and not what’s written in Loving What Is.

I think I completely agree with the point you make here:

By continually living it .. ‘he shouldn’t have done it!’ she’s fighting reality and that’s the root of her pain. He did do it, it’s hard to move on from it and, yes, it was terrible. But it happened. The ‘abuse’ by the daughter (in the turnaround) is [not] about her role in the original, past event .. but about her role in keeping it alive in the present.

(I’ve taken the liberty of adding what I presume was a missing word. Let me know if that’s wrong.)

That is actually how I took the words in the first place. However, looking back at the story, I’m not sure that it actually is what Byron Katie was getting at. Nevetheless, I think it is a helpful way to approach the account.

The Work operates beyond right and wrong where reality is that good and bad things happen all the time … and we can find greater peace by accepting (not agreeing with) reality. And when we have peace within we are much better equipped to stop the ‘bad’ things from happening in the first place.

Yeah, I can see that. And perhaps the trouble with reading these things is that we haven’t gone through the process of inquiry with the person involved, so we’re not in that place ‘beyond’ right and wrong. I’m not sure that one needs to believe that there is no such thing as right or wrong, because I don’t see The Work as making such absolute statements about reality. It seems to be more about giving someone a way to understand their experience of reality, that is less painful than what they are currently going through. In that sense, I’d suspect that your insight is spot-on.

Thanks again for your comment – and for your kind words.

I enjoyed reading this … maybe ‘enjoy’ is not an appropriate word in the context of sexual abuse. I’m happy when I see the Work being shared.

I have a slightly different take on the point of the turnaround you talk about that’s my own interpretation and not what’s written in Loving What Is.

As I understand it the Work is aimed at accepting and finding peace with reality .. neither condoning nor condemning it. In the case of the sexually abused 8 year old the reality is that it happened. Nothing can change that. By continually living it .. ‘he shouldn’t have done it!’ she’s fighting reality and that’s the root of her pain. He did do it, it’s hard to move on from it and, yes, it was terrible. But it happened. The ‘abuse’ by the daughter (in the turnaround) is about her role in the original, past event .. but about her role in keeping it alive in the present. She lives with the pain and the outrage again and again by continuing to ‘abuse’ her step-father with her judgements of him. I don’t think there is any value judgement of the daughter .. just an enquiry into the reality of what’s going on.

Going further I’m wondering if it’s controversial because we’re brought up to believe in the concept of right and wrong and that when someone does something ‘bad’ they deserve to be punished. The Work operates beyond right and wrong where reality is that good and bad things happen all the time … and we can find greater peace by accepting (not agreeing with) reality. And when we have peace within we are much better equipped to stop the ‘bad’ things from happening in the first place.

I’m curious about your reaction to any of this.

And maybe it wasn’t clear .. but I enjoy your writing!

Ian

Thanks for your comment – and sorry for taking so long to get back to you! I’ve been to the States and had to take some time to recover once we got back!

You’re absolutely right that Katie makes that distinction between his big role and her tiny part. I also think you’re right to suggest that the point is that ‘until we can acknowledge our own tiny part in something we can never be free of it, we are trapped in seeing ourselves as hopeless victims, and inclined to live our lives repeating victim patterns.’. I was hoping to allude that that point when I said, above, that this woman is given the option of not considering herself a victim.

Nevertheless, this still leaves me uncomfortable. It’s true that the woman would find more freedom in no longer seeing herself as a victim. Yet, it is untrue that she as an eight year old girl abused her father. It may be a clever turnaround, but it’s just not true and – I think – is not a good advert for the Work.

However, the turnaround I mentioned is not the only questionable (to me) one in that conversation. If I remember rightly, Byron Katie also leads her to say that she should apologise to her mother for not lying about it in court.

I’m not at all anti-Byron Katie (there don’t seem to be many of us who don’t either love or hate her!), but I do think that this issue was a dangerous example of how something as powerful as The Work is when used by someone without the academic training – and resultant code of ethics – of a professional counselor.

I’m intending to write a couple more posts on the topic, including my thoughts on the pros and cons of The Work, along with some possible ways that I think it could be tweaked and perhaps improved for a counselling scenario.

This is an interesting post, and a good thing to bring to discussion. I have read the conversation you write about, and if I remember right, I did feel shocked at first. But you have missed something really crucial – I lent my book to someone, so this is my memory of it – there is a part where Katie asks the woman what her part in it was. She says something like: His part was this big, and holds her arms wide, and then: your part is this big, and holds her hands almost together. Her point, as I understand it, is that until we can acknowledge our own tiny part in something we can never be free of it, we are trapped in seeing ourselves as hopeless victims, and inclined to live our lives repeating victim patterns. I have noticed that believing I am victim in any way is very painful, and doesn’t bring peace. I’m not talking about sexual abuse specifically here, whenever we feel like a victim it hurts.